Relocating From NYC to Florida? Know This Before You Take the Leap
Had a blast talking to the gracious host of the Miami Real Estate PodCast Omar De Windt from Cervera for almost an hour about:
✅ Being an Entrepreneur in NYC for almost 20 years
✅ Why I decided to move my home and company outside of NYC
✅ The logistical process of moving to Miami and going through a tough residency audit
✅ What the personal benefits of living in South Florida are and why I don’t regret one minute of moving
✅ My Predictions for NYC and Miami in the Next 10 years
✅ Why it completely sucks to be a startup entrepreneur
#Miami #NYC #RealEstate #Startups #Investing #VentureCapital #EntrepreneurLife #NemanVentures
Audio Version | Video Version
Shane Neman is a forward-thinking problem solver, consummate optimist and serial entrepreneur. A prototypical businessman of our modern era, his experience and expertise in business spans numerous industries, from technology and telecommunications to real estate and hospitality.
In 2014, Shane relocated his family from Manhattan to South Florida. In this episode of the Miami Real Estate Podcast by Cervera Real Estate, he provides a detailed account of what the process entails legally, emotionally and financially. Shane breaks down what other New Yorkers need to know before making the leap and answers the big question: was it worth it?
We also spoke about the importance of having a diversified real estate portfolio as an investor, new opportunity zones that savvy South Florida real estate investors should keep their eyes on and advice for would-be entrepreneurs looking to start a new venture.
About Our Guest:
After leaving NYU Medical School early, Shane started three industry-shifting tech startups (two of them – EZ Texting and JoonBug – acquired) with hundreds of employees and tens of thousands of customers. As an insightful startup backer, Shane’s portfolio includes companies such as Convoy, Prose, Impossible Foods, Universal Standard, Apostrophe, MeetMindful, MapAnything, VinePair and Smylen. Shane is also a prolific real estate developer and investor. From commercial shopping and industrial centers to residential buildings, he owns more than two dozen large-scale properties across the U.S.
He holds a degree in Computer Science from New York University, where he received the prestigious Barry M. Goldwater scholarship and was a member of the Phi Beta Kappa academic honor society.
You can read more about Shane’s transition from New York to Miami in his blog “Know this before relocating to Florida from New York City.”
If you like what I write about then sign up for my email list.
Transcript:
Omar De Windt: From the Cervera Newsroom in sunny, Miami. Welcome to the Miami Eeal Estate Podcast. Your home for expert insight on all things, Miami Real Estate. I'm your host Omar De Windt, let's get started.
Omar De Windt: As sunny South Florida continues to develop into a world class location and a legal tax haven. Many new Yorkers are we considering whether the big Apple is a right place in which to live and park their assets? But few know just how challenging the process can be for those within a certain tax bracket. Lucky for you our guest today has been through the process and has the scoop for us. I'm Omar De Windt communications executive at Miami-based Rivera Real Estate and host the Miami Real Estate podcast. Joining me in the studio is Shane Neman, a serial entrepreneur real estate developer, and investor that relocated from New York to South Florida in 2014 and lived to tell the tale. He's going to walk us through that process. Everything you need to know about doing it, and also share his insights on what's exciting about South Florida from an economic and entrepreneurial perspective now and in the years to come. So, Shane, thanks for being here.
Shane Neman: Well, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
Omar De Windt: It's our pleasure and this is such an exciting topic, obviously. I think you were one of the original pioneers, right? For relocating from New York to South Florida in 2016, obviously with the change in tax law, we've seen an influx or an Exodus, as you say, in your blog that I loved.
Shane Neman: Yeah. I actually came in 2014, so it's been almost six years now.
Omar De Windt: Wow.
Shane Neman: When I was doing it, then a lot of people thought I was really crazy. And now, especially my friends and family in New York but I think now they kind of get it.
Omar De Windt: Right. You were like those original, like pioneers settling the American West before, right?
Shane Neman: I wouldn't go that far, but yeah, it's just a two-and-a-half-hour flight and pretty easy to get back to New York but I grew up in New York. I lived in New York. I was born in Brooklyn. I grew up in Long Island in a middle-class family. And I ended up going to NYU for college. So, I moved to the city when I was 18 and I lived in the city since then. I started my business there. I did a few businesses there and if you were to ask me 10 years ago, would you ever move out of New York city? I would have thought you were bonkers. So, I definitely had a big change of heart for sure.
Omar De Windt: I love that and I think there's many out there that sort of share that thought process in that path. Can you walk me through yours in particular, in sort of the motivations 10 years ago or whatever, when you started thinking maybe I should go from New York to Miami?
Shane Neman: Well, yeah, I actually thought about moving to Miami before 2014.
Omar De Windt: Okay.
Shane Neman: So, I just to kind of rewind a little bit. My background's in tech mostly. So, I started three tech companies in Manhattan, New York. When I was 22, I started this company called Offyx and what it did we didn't even have the name for it then it so we called it utilitizing computing but it's now called Microsoft 365.
Omar De Windt: Oh wow. You might have heard of it.
Shane Neman: So, we didn't even have the terminology for it then. It was really early. It was during the .com era. I dropped out of med school to do that. There's a long story behind that, that didn't work out obviously after the .com bubble burst. And then after that, I started another tech media company, where we did a lot of events and we built software and technology around letting people know about events. We had a huge email list, kind of like, I don't know, people are familiar with Thrillist. It was called it's called JoonBug. It's still around.
Omar De Windt: Sure, can you say.
Shane Neman: And so, I did that for about 10 years. And then out of that we had a very big email list that we would use and tell them about events going on in their area and we had sponsors and all that kind of stuff going on. As the efficacy of email was getting lower and lower as time was going on because everyone had a MailChimp account and everyone their own email lists and you weren't the only game in the inbox anymore. So, I was looking for a way to kind of get through the clutter, so to speak. And people were texting, starting to text a lot more in like 2004, 2003. People starting using iPhones, blackberries were getting popular. I think actually iPhone came a little bit later than that, but blackberries were getting popular, I said, okay, how do we text everyone? And it seemed pretty easy if you think about it, right? But there was no out of the box off the shelf solution for that. And so, I have a degree in computer science actually from NYU. So, I studied computer science and I did pre-med because basically it was the only thing where you didn't have to memorize stuff and I really suck at memorizing. So, anyway that I couldn't find anything (for texting) and so went on and decided to build it myself. And essentially, I started EZ Texting at that time. And EZ Texting is like a MailChimp or a Constant Contact type platform for SMBs to do SMS marketing, run text campaigns, get coupons, etc.
Omar De Windt: So, it's like text blasting, right. For those out there.
Shane Neman: Yeah, I mean in its simplistic form it is that, but just like how MailChimp, isn't just sending out an email blast, there's all these other kinds of value-added stuff around it. You can build your email list through their forms and you can create social media stuff for it. And, you can organize your contacts. There's a lot of other stuff going on there around that, but yes, and its simplistic form it's a...
Omar De Windt: Not to undercut it, right?
Shane Neman: Yes. That's what people think when you say it, but it's a lot more than that and you know you're not paying for a text but you're paying for the service. You're paying to call the 1-800 number and get help figure out how things work. In any case so I built that all in New York City I sold JoonBug and I focused mainly on EZ Texting for about so I had JoonBug for about 10 years, and then there was a little bit of overlap between having both companies Ez Texting and JoonBug. And then I focused mainly on EZ Texting for the next, let's say eight or nine years and that was in 2005.
Shane Neman: Okay. And so, I built this all in New York City. I was a city guy, right. So, my offices were in New York city and we hired people from the city and it was pretty easy to find talent. Right? And I think that's why a lot of people like to stay in places like New York City, because it is easy to find, especially if you're in tech. Miami is a little bit harder to kind of find that right now – I’m finding that to be true but it's getting a lot better. But getting back to your question of, when was I thinking about that is when I was doing EZ Texting a few years before 2014. I said, you know, we're paying New York City tax, we're paying New York State tax paying corporate tax, I'm paying personal tax. I could take all this money that I'm paying in tax, and I could hire 20 more people literally. I'm not even exaggerating when I say that. I could hire better engineers. I could hire more customer support people, more salespeople and all for what, for having an office in Manhattan.
Omar De Windt: Right.
Shane Neman: And that didn't really make sense for us in particular, because we're not lawyers, we're not accountants. We basically had software and it was a software as a service business. Right? And people all over the country were signing up online. And you know, we were servicing them on the phone, on the Internet, through chat, through different channels that didn't require them to come into our office.
Omar De Windt: Well, and I think on the talent side of it also, I think in recent conversations, I've heard more and more that there's also that globalization of the workforce, right. Or like, you know, you could be in Europe or Asia or wherever doing the job just as efficiently we made it cheaper.
Shane Neman: I mean, not to kind of get off on a tangent, half of our team was in the Ukraine.
Omar De Windt: Okay.
Shane Neman: So I went to the Ukraine because we were having problems finding talent, especially tech talent in the United States that was affordable and the ones that were affordable were just crazy expensive. Forget about it being expensive, they just didn't really have the talent, they weren't as like high caliber as they were there. Anyway, I went there for a few months. We built an office there and that worked out really, really well for us and we were able to accomplish that. So, on that point, you're, you're very much right. You know, that New York City address, it just doesn't carry that much weight.
Omar De Windt: Sure.
Shane Neman: That 212 number just doesn't mean anything anymore. So, you know, especially with cell phones, right it just really makes no difference. So that's when I actually really started thinking about moving out of New York was when I was thinking about my business and saying, alright, well, you know, how do we kind of get more juice out of this? - What we have. And how do we grow? One way is to spend more on ads. Another way is like, Whoa, look at this line item on my profit and loss, it's this huge tax bill I have to pay. And if we could get rid of that we can hire more people. We can grow. We can do a lot of other things that we that we otherwise couldn't. So, I was actually looking into it since then. I didn't end up moving to Florida. I ended up actually moving my office out of Manhattan and into Hoboken. So, and we did that. We did that strategically mainly to at least we could avoid New York city tax in that manner because even though it's not as much as New York state tax, we did get some tax benefit and it helped us hire more people. And it was just a simple matter of buying everyone a train.
Omar De Windt: Sure, the commuting, yeah.
Shane Neman: It's five or 10 minutes, extra subway ride. So, and when I did that, people thought I was crazy too but it ended up working out really well for us. And, none of my employees left, they all got it. They all understood, and I let them come in 15 minutes later.
Omar De Windt: Sure.
Shane Neman: So what really catalyzed me moving here is I ended up actually exiting EZ Texting and selling it to a company called Callfire they did a deal through Morgan Stanley to acquire the company and they basically did what we did, but for calling instead of SMS and they needed an SMS component. And so, I wasn't really bound to New York, they were a Los Angeles based company, so I wasn't really bound to New York as much before because of the office and, or let's say Hoboken not New York. So, I had a lot more freedom to do what I wanted to do at that point. And I also was married, I had my first child and we were raising my daughter in the City. She was just a few months old and I was not leaving the apartment ever because it was too cold or too hot or raining or snowing or just really crappy outside or it was that there aren't that many activities that are easy to access in New York for kids. Even the parks were bad. I lived in, I lived in Chelsea. So, it doesn't get more downtown and like happening and easily accessible than that and everything was like a schlep basically. So, my in-laws had a place in Sunny Isles that they would go to, every few months. And so, we started going there more often because they weren't using it. And, after a couple of times, I would see my daughter blossoming and, going into the pool or on the beach, she was a different child.
Omar De Windt: Right.
Shane Neman: And I was, I was happier I'm on East coast time so I could get my work done.
Omar De Windt: Right.
Shane Neman: And as you said, everything's globalized. With the Internet you don't need to physically be anywhere anymore. And so, did it really matter that I was in New York city or not? It didn't. So, then we did an experiment and I stayed for a month.
Omar De Windt: Okay.
Shane Neman: And I said, wow, this month went by and within two weeks … just to backtrack, my wife is also like, you know, like total new Yorker grew up in Brooklyn, went to NYU too. She's a dentist went to NYU Dental, went to Poly Prep, really, really hard core New Yorker. And when I had first suggested it, she was crying.
Omar De Windt: Right.
Shane Neman: And saying absolutely no possible way that that would ever happen. And I think actually like a lot of people that I talk to a big thing is my spouse, my wife will never go because, my family is there, we have this and we have that and there's like a million reasons why, but I'll get into why that doesn't matter later. But in any case, that's how we did it. We did a month and then we said, this is working, I don't even want to go back to New York.
Omar De Windt: So just to be clear the trial was, you were commuting back and forth or the whole the whole family was?
Shane Neman: No, we just came and we stayed for a month.
Omar De Windt: Okay.
Shane Neman: And I didn't go back for a month right. And I did that on purpose to make sure that if I actually really moved here, what's the worst-case scenario.
Omar De Windt: Sure.
Shane Neman: Right? How would I deal with things if they weren't there? I mean, would I miss people, what I really miss going to, I don't know, whatever restaurant, and also, I have to admit if if I was single, I probably would prefer New York city. But once your married or in you’re in a relationship, or you have kids, it's a totally different story. So the choice was for us either go to suburbia, which what a lot of people do, they go to Long Island, they go to Connecticut, they go to Scarsdale, Westchester or something like that in the Northeast or come here and go to the beach.
Omar De Windt: Right.
Shane Neman: And have a totally different experience than what suburban life really is in the Northeast. So that's what the catalyst really was and obviously there's other things that come with that right. Things are a lot cheaper here, than in the city, if I even wanted to get my daughter a swimming class, it's like 150 bucks an hour.
Omar De Windt: Wow.
Shane Neman: here it's...
Omar De Windt: You're going to be a swimming instructor.
Shane Neman: Here, it's 50, and it sounds so stupid and petty but it all adds up. Right? My kids want to go to school. You go to private school in the city, it's $60,000 a year. Right? Even for kindergarten and 50, $60,000 a year. Here, it's a lot less and the schools are, I mean, Ransom's ranked number one private school.
Omar De Windt: Yes, great school.
Shane Neman: Right. Great, Pinecrest, great school. There's, Miami Country Day, great schools. There's a lot of great schools here. And that's another thing that a lot of people have a misconception about is that there are no good schools for my kids, which is totally wrong. You don't need hundreds of good schools. You need one good school because your kid's going to go to one school.
Omar De Windt: Right. And there's a few really good options.
Shane Neman: Yes. There's the best option in the country is here.
Omar De Windt: Yeah.
Shane Neman: So...
Omar De Windt: That's Random, right.
Shane Neman: That's Ransom. Right. It's ranked, on US World.
Omar De Windt: Yeah. I'm pretty sure it is number one in the country.
Shane Neman: It is ranked number one or was like last few years.
Omar De Windt: And surprisingly recently all the way up to collegiate or higher education where I read us news and world report, Florida ranks, number one best day for higher education...
Shane Neman: Sure.
Omar De Windt: ...at a college costs for like the third year in a row. Sure.
Shane Neman: Yes, exactly. A lot of kids, as I found out and I made more friends, a lot of people who grew up here ended up going to college here as well. The schools are really good.
Omar De Windt: But like you mentioned, we'll jump a little bit more into those, like, you know, specifics onto what is some of those misconceptions in a bit, but to bring us back to that journey, you mentioned, right. You were here for about a month, you realized, Hey, we can do this. So now talk me through Shane, like from, let's say a legal perspective or some of those lesser known aspects or misconceptions on somebody saying, I actually want to do it. I want to take the leap, like talk me through that vacation, home, full relocation. What's the difference and all that?
Shane Neman: Yeah, sure. So, for us, we still had some hesitation, right. So, listen, I looked at the worst-case scenario and I said, well, I'll move for a year and if I don't really like it, I can just move back. I mean, that's the worst-case scenario, you know? And so, we decided to keep our place in New York. And I spoke to my accountants. I spoke to my lawyers because I had heard that if you try to move and you're in a certain tax bracket, basically if you make over a couple hundred thousand dollars a year, you're, going to get audited. I think even now more so than when I did it was happening, but not at such a high rate and pace as it is now. And so, I tried to consult with my financial advisor who had other clients that went through this process. I spoke to my accountant; I spoke to my lawyer and prepped myself of what are the things that you need to do and you'd be like completely shocked at what the rules are. It’s not as simple as I spend more than half my days in Florida and therefore I live in Florida.
Omar De Windt: That's interesting because that was my, like understanding of it really just coming into this was 200 and something days of the year.
Shane Neman: It's not day count, it's part of it.
Omar De Windt: Part of it.
Shane Neman: It's part of it. It's a very big part of it but it's not the only part of the story. I'll give you some examples.
Omar De Windt: Sure.
Shane Neman: One of the things is that, when you move here: Is your place bigger or the same size as your place in New York, right? They want to make sure it's not a pied-a-terre. Right? And you're kind of waiting it out in Florida, those extra two days. So, you don't pay, sorry. Excuse me. So, you don't pay the taxes.
Omar De Windt: Okay.
Shane Neman: They have this concept of home is where the heart is.
Omar De Windt: I love the sound of that. Tell me more?
Shane Neman: It's so weird that it's law, because it's so vague, right. But it's where are your photos located? Where's your artwork located? Where are your sentimental stuff located? Where's your safety deposit box located? Right? Who are your doctors? Did you move your doctors from Manhattan to Florida? Do you move your temple, your church, your mosque, your community group that you go to, whatever it may be? So, did you do that? Where are you sending your kids to school? Did you register to vote in Florida?
Omar De Windt: Wow. So, this is pretty thorough.
Shane Neman: It's really just a quarter of the things...
Omar De Windt: The tip of the iceberg.
Shane Neman: ...I Had to do. But that's just kind of giving you the general idea. People think, Oh, I'm just going to stay there. I'm going to get a Florida license. And think, I'm a Floridian, right?
Omar De Windt: Sure.
Shane Neman: Maybe under the eyes of Florida, you are...
Omar De Windt: Like welcome.
Shane Neman: ...But Not under the eyes of New York state.
Omar De Windt: Okay.
Shane Neman: You know... [Cross-talking 22:15].
Omar De Windt: There's a representative essentially from the government that's going through all of this with you and you're, essentially like answering all these questions. Is that?
Shane Neman: No. I wish it was like that but it wasn't. They're not like, Oh, well here, if you meet these kinds of requirements, we'll leave you alone. That would be great. If there was a recipe for it. That would be great but it's not, it's really, being advised. Oh, I'll even tell you one other thing that I did, I, which is kind of crazy. You know, I'm really organized and, I think these days in order to run a big business, you have to be like that. And so, I'm always organized and prepared. And one of the things I did is I downloaded this app called Follow Mee. And what it does is it takes your GPS coordinates every, I don't know what, I'd set it to every hour and uploads it to a server. Right?
Omar De Windt: Okay.
Shane Neman: And so that I could prove that I'm here and not there. Right? So that, you know, during that audit process, they look at your credit card charges. Are you going to a gas station in New York or are you going into a gas station here? There's a lot of kind of moving parts. So, there is no recipe it's really try and blanket. And the reason why there is no recipe is because they have no incentive to do that. The burden of proof is on you. So, it's backwards to what most of US law or what you learned in the constitution and stuff like that is. I mean, it's State level, so it's not Federal.
Omar De Windt: True.
Shane Neman: The burden of proof is on you to prove that you do not live in New York. They don't need to prove that you do live in New York. You need to prove that you don't not live in New York.
Omar De Windt: Interesting.
Shane Neman: Right?
Omar De Windt: It's like some reverse leg court, like innocent before...
Shane Neman: It's like it's guilty before.
Omar De Windt: Right. It sounding like that a little bit.
Shane Neman: Proven innocent, it's backwards. So, you need to do whatever it is that you think you can do to convince them that you really don't live there. And they've seen it all. So, they will ask you. Just so you get it one of the things that I was advised is not to have a summer home in NY. I had a summer home in Montauk. I don't have it anymore. And I sold it mainly because I didn't want to deal with New York State anymore. Also we rented our place in Manhattan because they told me if you leave it ...
Omar De Windt: Unoccupied.
Shane Neman: Unoccupied, they could claim that it's still your home. So not only do I have to rent it, I had to show the lease for it. And I had to show in my bank account the rents being deposited, because a lot of times people will say, Oh, here's the lease.
Omar De Windt: Right.
Shane Neman: And, do a lease with their cousin...
Omar De Windt: Okay.
Shane Neman: I guess. You know what I mean?
Omar De Windt: That kind of proof of funds where we're in there is a paper trail.
Shane Neman: Yes. So those are the things that you have to be aware of. I definitely suggest if you do want to do it, you have to talk to someone an experienced accountant, lawyer, financial person who has been through this, who can get you pre-prepared, you have to be really organized about it. You should save all your receipts. You should, as soon as you move, do all the stuff that they're saying, because honestly the minute I filed my last tax return, two weeks later, I got a handwritten envelope from New York State in my Florida mailbox?
Omar De Windt: Wow.
Shane Neman: They didn't even wait until like [cross-talking 26:16].
Omar De Windt: They are like I hand writing this.
Shane Neman: And I thought Whoa, this is serious. And they're banking on that. They're banking on you, not knowing, they're banking on you getting scared. One of the biggest pieces of advice was don't, don't ever talk to the auditor yourself because then they can take you down this rabbit hole because you don't know. And so you should always have a representative, dealing with it, even though it's more expensive that way.
Omar De Windt: You mentioned lead me into my next question on this process as give me an idea, general idea of ballpark in terms of time and costs, what somebody could expect maybe to deal with it.
Shane Neman: It really depends on how complicated your situation is. For me, it was pretty complicated because I kept my New York place. And so, there were things that were tying me back to New York. Although it was less complicated because my business was not in New York anymore. Right? So, in some ways it all really depends on how complicated it is. Timewise, it's very time consuming. You've got to scan all your credit card statements. You got to keep all your toll bills. You have to keep all your gas station, bills. Then you have to register to vote and keep that. And you have to do declaration of domicile, which is something else in itself. It's a lot of paperwork and kind of organizing that. And even if you're super organized, a good lawyer, a good accountant costs, hundreds of dollars an hour.
Omar De Windt: Sure.
Shane Neman: And, they're going to charge you. It's going to cost you.
Omar De Windt: Right.
Shane Neman: But you have to really think, that's a onetime cost that it's going to cost you, but how much are you saving in terms of taxes? How much are you saving in terms of lifestyle and how expensive things are, in New York versus here, and the bang for your buck that you got here.
Omar De Windt: Right. And we'll jump into that a little bit more after we come back from the break. One thing I do want to mention for those of you listening, if you're considering doing the process is you wrote an amazing blog, which we'll share in the link to our show notes on if you're considering relocating the steps you need to know. So, but like I said, we're going to take a break. We're going to come back.
Shane Neman: Okay.
Omar De Windt: Ladies and gentlemen, we're talking to Shane Neiman serial entrepreneur investor, an all-around amazing guy who survived...
Shane Neman: Thank you.
Omar De Windt: ...the Transition from New York to Miami. We'll be right back. So, we're back with Shane Neiman, serial entrepreneur and investor here on the Miami real estate podcast, talking about tips and tricks on relocating from New York to South Florida and generally speaking of perspective on the South Florida entrepreneurial market and investment let's say trends. So, Shane, you were just walking us through essentially some of the key components of the residency audit as you discuss on your blog, which we'll share in the show notes. So, tell me all in all of that said was it worth it?
Shane Neman: Absolutely undeniably worth it. And it's so crazy that I'm saying this, because again, like I told you, if you asked me this 10 years ago, I would've thought you were bananas and I would've said I'm never leaving New York City. It my home; I'm living where everyone dreams to live in. But there are just so many things that I didn't even realize myself until I moved of how much, really better it is here, forget about the obvious stuff, right. It's cheaper, you've got less taxes. The weather's better. Got it. Right? But you know and I think a lot of people who live in the City and you know, or have busy lives and have families they'll kind of relate to this is that, it gets to a point where you're really not even leaving the two block radius of where you live when you live in the City. If it's inconvenient for you not doing it really. So, if you live downtown, you're not like going uptown. If you're coming downtown, you're not coming from uptown downtown. I really wasn't even seeing my friends that much anymore. And when I was seeing them, I was seeing them for a couple of hours late night at whatever trendy restaurant where I could barely hear them. We were rushing home because we had a babysitter and we're tired and all that kind of stuff too.
Omar De Windt: Right.
Shane Neman: And it was raining outside and again, it was a schlep. Right? And so, one of the counterintuitive things here was that, I was really concerned about: first of all, making friends, not seeing my friends, my family - they didn't move with us. My in-laws ended up kind of coming here a lot more. But what actually ends up happening is people don't think about it is that all the New Yorkers come to Miami all the time.
Omar De Windt: Right.
Shane Neman: All the time, all throughout the year, new years, especially in new year.
Omar De Windt: Right.
Shane Neman: So, what's happening every week? Another one of my friends that knows that I live in Miami, that's from New York is texting me, calling me, Hey, can you hang out? Can you do this? And when they're coming here they're on vacation. So, they're not rushing home to their kids. And, it's not 10 o'clock at night it's Oh, come to my beach or come let's go have lunch. And it's relaxed. I get to actually spend time with them when family comes now, it's not just having dinner with them and then everyone going back to their own house. They come, they stay, we see them for long extended periods of time. And the quality of time that we're spending with them is much better. That's what we really noticed a lot.
Omar De Windt: That's amazing. I had never really stopped to think about that, but it's like almost having a better quality of experience, seeing your friends more often, arguably.
Shane Neman: Yes.
Omar De Windt: As you said, it's not a, you know, you're just enjoying it better.
Shane Neman: Yeah. You're enjoying. It's not just to say, I hung out with my friends. It's like, I actually hung out with my friend and I spent three hours or four hours or a whole day with them. And, it was better than 10 times of seeing them in another kind of setting basically.
Omar De Windt: Right. So you're essentially the fun friend, the most popular friend going inside Florida.
Shane Neman: Yeah. Well, we had to cut off people trying to stay with us right from the beginning, because that was the biggest thing.
Omar De Windt: Okay.
Shane Neman: When you have kids, it's just not really conducive to that. But in any case, we were happy to hang out with our friends, our family when they come. So that's one thing. The other thing that I think, that a lot of people have a misconception of is, “Oh, it doesn't have culture. It doesn't have the restaurants, it doesn't have these” - that's bologna okay Because Art Basel is here. You have the Perez art museum, you have the Heat games, you have, a million other things that are like that here and granted, it's not as copious as it is in New York, but it's still very good. It's very high quality and it's available to you.
Omar De Windt: Totally. And I think just to add onto that you know, especially in the downtown urban core you mentioned some of the biggest institutions, but in the last couple of years, we've seen the frost science come in.
Shane Neman: Sure. Wynwood.
Omar De Windt: You have Wynwood Amazing. You've got design district. I mean, and what's happening now with Brickell city center in Miami world center in downtown. It's like this concentration in this urban core is just, it's like a mini New York. I don't want to say it's, you know, right there but it's...
Shane Neman: Actually growing up in New York, what I'm seeing here is I'm thinking, why aren't more people coming here. It just doesn't make sense, it's just a matter of time...
Omar De Windt: Sure.
Shane Neman: It's built and they will come.
Omar De Windt: An education process.
Shane Neman: Yeah.
Omar De Windt: It just takes somebody coming in and say, Oh wow. I haven't been here in a few years and this thing really changed you know.
Shane Neman: Yeah. Well, especially Brickell City Center and Wynwood and those areas, it's what happened in Brooklyn basically and in New York and now Brooklyn is more expensive than all of Manhattan. So, some parts of Brooklyn are more expensive than all parts of Manhattan, which was unfathomable 10 years ago. You just really wouldn't think that. But to answer your question absolutely worth it in many, many respects and you know, one of those things that you won't realize how worth it is, until you actually do it.
Omar De Windt: So, Shane you're distinguished entrepreneur investor, great track record. Now that you're here, what do you see as the biggest opportunities in Miami or maybe South Florida as a whole?
Shane Neman: So, in terms of real estate, I've have to kind of backtrack. Throughout this whole tech kind of career that I've had, I used a lot of the money that I made to buy real estate and I've done that since the first apartment I bought when I was 22. I bought an apartment on Central Park South should have kept that apartment but long story but, I did that whole game buying your apartment, fixing it up, flipping it, and I learned a lot about real estate and all different types of real estate throughout the years. But I've been doing a lot of real estate investing in South Florida the last five years since I moved here. In fact, since I moved, what I'm doing is disposing of a lot of the stuff that I have in the NorthEast that I had kind of amassed over the past few decades and buying here mainly for logistical reasons and also because I see a lot more opportunity here. And there's, a lot of things going on.
But in terms of what areas and what types of real estate, there's the obvious stuff that a lot of people are looking at right now is Allapatah, for example, and that's right behind Wynwood. It's starting to get more gentrified as an industrial area, but the Rubel Museum just open there and I think that that will spur the gentrification of that area. And there's a lot of other slated projects. I happen to own a cold storage facility in that area that I bought before it was designated an Opportunity Zone. So now that it is an Opportunity Zone, that's going to spur even more stuff. Because I think as more savvy Northeast investors and real estate people start moving here and come start spending a lot more time here. They're going to look at things like that area. And another kind of under estimated and overlooked area, I think is Fort Lauderdale/Hollywood. I think a lot of people kind of dismiss it.
Omar De Windt: Sure.
Shane Neman: But what they're not seeing, I think is, is that especially kids that are well, they're not kids anymore. They're people graduating that have jobs that are just starting their work career, they can't afford Miami.
Omar De Windt: Right.
Shane Neman: Right. But they can afford Fort Lauderdale and they can get the beach and they can get a place where they especially if the Bright Line comes and stop there, they can now take a train and work in Miami and live in Fort Lauderdale. Right? And get the same kind of Miami experience on the beach at a fraction of the price.
Omar De Windt: Yeah. And I mean, I personally, I love Fort Lauderdale. I grew up in the suburbs I've been in Western so I'm very familiar. I think it's like that hidden, slightly hidden. I mean, more people know about it now, but gem down here where you get the best of South Florida and the weather and the beach, but at, I guess, half or a fraction of the price, and you mentioned bright line, they do have the station in Fort Lauderdale and up to West Palm connecting to Miami, we'll see hopefully in the next two years, all the way up to Orlando, Tampa. But just to sidebar for a second, the other day, I was at a conference down here with Miami association of realtors commercial. And we learned about this amazing class "A" office building that is slated for at 830 Brickell. I was just going to be tremendous. I was thinking, as you talked about bringing the talent from Manhattan to...
Shane Neman: Sure.
Omar De Windt: ...To Hoboken, I could see that happening with a bright line from Fort Lauderdale down to Miami.
Shane Neman: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. So, and I'm not sure if you know, Buro, but they're like WeWork here. They have a bunch of locations and are in Coconut Grove. I happen to work in a Buro in MiMo on 75th and Biscayne...
Omar De Windt: Cool.
Shane Neman: ...Just because that works out for me and my commute but they just opened a downtown Fort Lauderdale location and they're packed. I've been to it. So, and I own real estate in Hollywood Beach. I've been working actually with the City Commissioner Dr. Wazir and he's, and all the people in Hollywood are really progressive. They are thinking about how they can incentivize development and to kind of modernize things there, to bring these young urban professionals into that area, especially Hollywood I'm talking about. So, with Margaritaville being there and the condo project, I forgot the name of the condo project.
Omar De Windt: Is that Melia Coastal Hollywood or something?
Shane Neman: I'm sorry.
Omar De Windt: You were mentioning the condo project that’s, here right?
Shane Neman: Yes, it's right next to Margaritaville. It's right on A1A next to Johnson street. So, I forgot the name of the the Condo part, but I know that they sold it out completely.
Omar De Windt: That's what it was because I used to know it as Coastal Hollywood, but I think they sold it and I'm not sure either what the new name [inaudible 40:32].
Shane Neman: Yeah, that area I think is booming and also for tourists coming, it's a lot cheaper too. Right. So, you're going to pay 200 bucks a night versus 400 bucks a night in South Beach or a $500 a night in South Beach and you get onto the beach. Right? It's on the beach. So, I think that's why Margaritaville is doing so well, actually. So another area I think, that people aren't thinking about is West Palm and Boca.
Omar De Windt: Interesting.
Shane Neman: There's a lot of buzz around Delray and Delray is kind of already boomed a lot, but the NorthEast people that I've been talking to, they're actually choosing Boca and Boynton Beach because it's a lot cheaper and it's giving you the kind of lifestyle that you want.
Omar De Windt: Right.
Shane Neman: It's got good schools and it's got all these other things that a suburb of New York has.
Omar De Windt: And one could say, you know, arguably it's also a slightly, I don't want to say less fast, but like, you know, Miami is awesome and downtown is great. It was very, you know, like fast paced and sort of sometimes chaotic, especially with our drivers, at least in Boca, West Palm area, it's a little bit more laid back right but you're so.
Shane Neman: I actually think, I actually think Boca, has this kind of cachet about it being your grandparents' retirement place right. But I just recently bought the Marriott Residence Inn in Boca.
Omar De Windt: I've read about that.
Shane Neman: When I looked at it initially, I said, Hmm, it kind of sounds interesting but then I started doing my research and thinking about it and talking to my friends and knowing that my friends are moving to Boca. These are young guys right. They're in their mid-thirties, forties established in New York, but not just guys, girls, you know, families. Right? And so, I'm thinking to myself, well, if these guys are coming, then their family's going to come, they need a place to stay. Those guys are going to start building businesses in Boca or around that area, where there are a lot of businesses already but people don't realize it that much and it's just going to be that much more right? And so, when they start businesses, extended stay product does well. If they build this Orlando bright line.
Omar De Windt: The connection to rail.
Shane Neman: Yeah, they're going to need to go through that area too. So, there's going to be short term demand for extended stay for people who work on things like the bright line and that kind of stuff. So that was the impetus for that. But the other stuff that I'm really bullish on, it really marries my tech background with real estate, two things I really love is prop tech. And that's kind of buzzword that a lot of people are talking about and there's, some pretty good examples here in Miami, there's a company called Lifehouse. I don't know if you've heard of them but.
Omar De Windt: It sounds familiar, but tell me about it.
Shane Neman: They're I think it's led by a CEO; his name is Rami Zeidan and he's really smart kid, well not a kid, a man. He created a concept called LifeHouse and what they do is they go into hotels that are kind of like being mismanaged and they make it cool and hip, and they bring in all these efficiencies through technology. You're checking in on an iPad, you're using an app to unlock your door. They have special software fills your place up, on the OTC market. And they make the rooms so that you can put five people in a room with bunk beds, right. Because that's what people are doing anyway. So why not make it comfortable for them? And and it's not really more about being in the room anymore. It's more about being in the location. So, I think they have a couple of locations now, one in little Havana and they're doing really well, they raised all this money. So that's one success story that I know of personally here but, physical stuff like prefab houses or prefab bathrooms, orall this other kind of stuff, I own cold storage. So that might be like special solar panels that you use...
Omar De Windt: Interesting.
Shane Neman: ...That do that kind of stuff. So, there's a lot of that going on. Not just in Miami, but I think Miami is going to be a really big hub, especially for Latin talent. Well, a lot of people outsource to Latin America and also when this Parallax finishes, there's going to be a lot more commerce going through here.
Omar De Windt: Absolutely. And you know, it's always been at like global gateway. I think it's now even more so, not just to South America, but even just to the world, especially with, as we talked about earlier that decentralization of work and people and technology bringing us all closer and closer together. But a previous guest on the show just talked about also, you know, Silicon Valley is that sort of exited us from there as well of tech talent coming down here, similar to just how you're having people looking to come to Miami as a tax Haven. Some, you know, in many places, those things align and you know, just...
Shane Neman: Well, Carl Icahn look at him.
Omar De Windt: Yeah.
Shane Neman: It makes sense. Why wouldn't you move your hedge fund here?
Omar De Windt: Yeah.
Shane Neman: I mean, I'm invested in some hedge funds, right? I've never been to their office. Do I really care where their office is?
Omar De Windt: Right.
Shane Neman: I just care like what my statement says at the end of the month. Right? Do I care if they're in Miami or New York, maybe institutional investors do but those, I think that's changing too.
Omar De Windt: It makes sense. And I want to touch on that more in a second but just to close out that last thought. So, in terms of opportunities, you talked about Allah Patta Fort Lauderdale, West Palm and Boca sort of more up and coming and your eye on prop tech. I think it makes so much sense with these two. It's just coming together and intertwining. Talk to me a little bit and especially our audience, mainly brokers some investors and end users about the importance of diversifying your investment and your philosophy on that?
Shane Neman: Yes, I kind of modeled my real estate investments, the same I do with my equity investments. You just wouldn't go and just put all your money into just tech companies. Right? Your financial advisor would kill you if you did that, right? Because if there's a big problem in tech, you can really hurt yourself if you're not diversified. Right? And in the same, it's just that you can't look up the price of a piece of real estate on a computer. But, the same cycles happen with real estate and you have to realize it's just, there are a lot of more asset classes, sub asset classes in real estate, then you would imagine, and each one of them have their own pros and cons and each one of them have their own cycles. And so, if you do want to do real estate, I mean, most of the people I talked to, all they want to do is multifamily, right? That's like the hot thing, multifamily this and multifamily that and, there's cap rate compression going on mainly because interest rates are really low.
And, me personally, I don't do any multifamily because it's just like Warren Buffet said, right. You don't want to go with the herd. Right? You want to be greedy when other people are fearful. Right? And so, it applies to real estate, that same concept. If you look at the guys who made so much money in real estate, like this guy Moishe Mana, he bought it when all that stuff was super cheap. Right? And that's how he made a lot of money. He didn't buy it when it was super expensive. Right? So, it's the same concept. If you go north right now you can buy stuff for relatively cheap, maybe not dirt cheap. Right. Or you go to Allapattah it's relatively cheap. So, that's why I'm not buying in Miami. Right? So, but again, just going to the diversification portion of it is do I have some multifamily? Yes. Am I actively going and buying multifamily? No, it's too expensive. I have industrial, I have some cold storage. I have some commercial shopping centers. I have office buildings. I have restaurants like freestanding triple net stuff. I have let me think. There's all this other kind of product out there.
Omar De Windt: Sure.
Shane Neman: There's let me see. There's also, Oh, there's like student housing, right?
Omar De Windt: Of course.
Shane Neman: There's the stuff that you don't really think about. Right? And there's light industrial and there's heavy industrial and there's all different types of real estate that you can do. And I'm not saying that you necessarily need to go out and you know, buy a medical office building because you want to diversify, maybe you can't and most people can't, right? And most people don't have the time or ability or let's say the drive to do that, but you can accomplish that by through public REITS. You can, there are private equity, private funds. There's a lot of them here in Miami. I'm personally invested with Matt Adler because he's very famous here. He has a light industrial fund and that's how I got exposure to light industrial. I invest with Advenir and Steve does multifamily. And that's how I got my multifamily exposure. Bu, other things you might want to kind of think about buying stuff that either is on the down cycle or is totally different than all the other stuff that you have. So that if one thing happens here, you're kind of okay here. Right?
Omar De Windt: Right.
Shane Neman: Obviously if there's an apocalyptic situation it doesn't matter what you're in you're totally screwed anyway, and it's over.
Omar De Windt: I like it. It's I keep an open mind, do your homework and b sort of, you know, adventurous at times if you will.
Shane Neman: Yes, but I think you should really think about it the same how you think about your stocks. You don't want to be too heavily concentrated in one particular asset class of real estate. So, there's a lot of them out there and you should do your homework and see what makes sense for you at that time. Or, what also makes sense for you logistically. Are you close to that piece of property? Can you manage it yourself? Can you find a good manager? Can you finance it? You know, all these other kinds of things that go into a place.
Omar De Windt: I like it all good things to think about ladies and gentlemen, you're listening to the Miami real estate podcast. We're here with Shane Neman entrepreneur, a developer and investor with some amazing nuggets of enlightenment and insights. Shane, before we wrap this up, I know our producer, Alex Ayyub has some tech entrepreneurial questions for us. Alex, hit me with some, some questions for Shane.
Alex: Hey, how's it going guys? So, you talk heavily about being a serial influencer and we have a lot of people, like you said, migrating from New York and are coming with hope of Silicon beach. We talk about Miami here, right? And a lot of people have the misconception of what it means to be a serial entrepreneur. What it means to be an entrepreneur in today's day and age.
Shane Neman: Sure.
Alex: By definition it's going to change. What do you think it means to be a genuine entrepreneur now in 2020?
Shane Neman: I think being an entrepreneur is really glorified and glamorized. It sucks, I'll tell you the truth. It really does. And I remember those days now, fondly of, and I am working on another startup but I can't really talk about it right now. And it's reminding me of how much it really sucks to be honest with you. I don't know how to say it better than that but here's the thing it's like being an entrepreneur it's a demoralizing game because you have to be comfortable being uncomfortable all the time. That's the kind of motto that I live life by. I always kind of do things that make me uncomfortable and I try to do things that make me uncomfortable because it's the only way that you grow and you learn. But that's the ultimate expression of being uncomfortable all the time because when you're trying to be an entrepreneur, you got to learn all this stuff that you really don't know. And you don't even know what you don't know. That's the biggest issue is that, you know, until you do it, you really, you can sit there and kind of plan everything out and two weeks later get punched in the face with something you never thought you had to deal with. Right? Whether it's like an IP lawsuit you get smacked with, which has happened to me a bunch of times, or, I didn't know how to do certain kind of accounting.
I had to learn how to do QuickBooks. I had to figure out, payroll, I had to figure out like, there's just like a trillion things I can't even think of right now. Right? And you know, you kind of have to be this Jack of all trades, but the only advice I can give is, you have to go into it, being comfortable with that, knowing that and just kind of being confident that you will eventually figure it out and that you won't give up no matter what the circumstances might be. And really that's in my opinion, 90% of the battle. And I do a lot of VC investing, seed round and series "A" and I do it from a unique perspective of actually starting my own businesses before. And I'm not really investing so much in the idea because, I've done, you know, like when I did the text messaging stuff, people were laughing at me. They're like, dude, text messaging. It's all about an app and apps and this and the other thing. And I'm like, no, but you don't understand that SMS is ubiquitous and everyone reads their texts. And they were like, dude, that's like technology from back then. And the amount of texts being sent only keeps growing 25% a year so, you know, if I had listened to people, I would have been in a totally different situation.
So and everyone thought my idea was shit. Like honestly, when I first did it. So, it's not really about the idea it's, do I really believe in and this cliché what I'm telling you because you hear a lot of podcasts and people saying the same thing to you, but it really is. There's something to that is it’s real: is that fire inside of you and can you take an emotional beating and get through it? And that's what makes a good investor too really, so it's those things.
So, advice don't quit your day job if you can try and keep it and try and do as much as you can on your free time, your lunch hour, your weekends, your everything else to reduce your risk.
Omar De Windt: Side hustle.
Shane Neman: Yes. Yes. It's true because you know, it's hard. It's really hard.
Omar De Windt: Very well said. I like it and I think that you know, that brings us full circle because getting comfortable with the uncomfortable, I think there's a fair degree amount of that with the move from New York to Miami, with diversifying your investments with entrepreneurship in general. So, it's a good one.
Shane Neman: Yeah. It's true. I think you read this a lot in like self-help books, all that kind of stuff but it really, really boils down to that. A lot of people like to be in this like kind of safe bubble where they know what's next and they can predict something, you just have to kind of, that's really what an entrepreneur is. Someone who is okay, not knowing what's next.
Omar De Windt: I love it. And that leads me to our final thoughts, Shane predictions. Tell me your predictions for 5, 10 years from now, Miami South Florida relocation trends. Just what's hot here would give me your final words.
Shane Neman: Okay. So, I hate betting against New York because there's this big saying every time you bet against New York, you lose. And I think that's very true but betting for Miami isn't necessarily betting against New York. I think in this case. I think that things are going to cycle out of New York and there is going to be this whole kind of Exodus, I think for a lot of people that are going to just get kind of get sick of it and say, you know, this doesn't make any sense and leave. And so, the prediction is I think that more and more tech companies are going to come here. I've seen a couple of really big tech guys move from Silicon Valley here. So that's great. There's things like Venture Hive. There's a bunch of other kind of incubators here. Some great success stories. So hopefully we'll see a nice tech scene grow here. And I think you're going to see real estate prices just continue to rise here. It just makes a lot of sense. You know, there's good deals to be had right now. People are moving to Miami. There's a lot of growth in the area. And the interest rates are low and the banks here are awesome to work with. Every local bank I've worked with here is really bullish and they really support you in wanting to make the deals happen.
Omar De Windt: I like it. I love it. We're going to leave it there. Shane, I think the moral of the story is it's not getting cheaper. So, get it. Now, there are still great opportunities to be had as Shane pointed out. And if you're thinking about relocating, I mean, life is great here in South Florida to live and to work. So, it's Shane, it's been an absolute pleasure if it's okay with you, we'll put your contact information in the show notes in case...
Shane Neman: Sure.
Omar De Windt: ...In case anybody has questions...
Shane Neman: Anytime.
Omar De Windt: ...They can reach out.
Shane Neman: Thank you so much.
Omar De Windt: And for all you guys out there, thanks for listening. I'm Omar De Windt communications executive with Servair Real Estate here with the one and only Shane Neman.